Episode Transcript

The Nourished Mama - Ep 21

Transcript 

Welcome back to another episode. I am so excited to be joined by Kirsty today. Kirsty is a gut brain health expert and the founder behind Cultured Wellness, an incredible platform that supports individuals and families with their gut healing journey. Kirsty qualifications and knowledge and research in this area span over 25 years, and her story and how cultured wellness came to life is one of real courage, determination, and strength.

But I will let her talk more about that. Kirsty welcome. So much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. It's wonderful to have a chat. Oh, thank you. Tell us a little bit more about yourself before we get into the nitty gritty and maybe how and why you started cultured Wellness. Yeah,I feel like culture wellness is one of those, and it's probably the same as your story as well.

It just came to me. I never woke up one day and was like, I'm gonna start a business that's got something to do with probiotics. And like it just certainly was never in my path at all. but yeah, as all things do and it's your soul's journey, it just pops in and there it is in your life.

And that certainly happened to me. I myself personally, have had a long history of health concerns. Really from about age two and, you know, managed it and episodes would happen and you just get through it and all the mamas out there will know that until something happens to your children.

Yeah. Then it's a whole different ballgame. You step into that real mama lioness role and suddenly it's about them, not yourself. And that was certainly the case for me. my son had a really significant health journey. he had an undiagnosed gut infection that was, the toxins from that gut infection were going into his brain, so he couldn't.

Talk. He couldn't function, he wasn't developing and this was a, a series of interruptions in his life, right? From day dot of, oh gosh, he's got colic. Let's put him on formula. Oh dear, he is got an ear infection. Let's give him some antibiotics. Yeah, we went to Fiji and oh my gosh, he's got Giardia.

Let's have some more antibiotics. And he looks in pain. Let's give him some neurofen. So all these things that as a new mom, how do we know what's going on? And this was a long time ago. Noah turned 17 this year. there was not the information, there wasn't the knowledge, the dissemination of information was different back then.

So when it comes to gut health, oh, a hundred percent. No one would've been talking about that then. No. No, absolutely not. And when this was happening, I'm very blessed, I'm a curious person from my research background, and my husband is a very experienced registered nurse, and we just were questioning, okay, so you've diagnosed him with autism, but he's got chronic diarrhea, he's got skin rashes.

He's screaming all night, he can't sleep. He's arching his back in pain, Really is this autism or is there something going on? is there a, like a function thing? Is there, something happening here? Yeah, so we went on this like grand adventure of learning about the body, learning about gut health and we sent his stool and my mine to over to Germany 'cause there wasn't even testing in Australia.

And yeah, sure enough we found out he had, a really significant gut infection. In fact many and pretty much very little beneficial microbes and that, that's wonderful for mum guilt, you know. and how long did, do you think that he had that infection whilst under the care of doctors and they were diagnosing with autism?

Him with autism? Yeah, I would say about four years. Wow. and we know from the research that when a child comes on down through that birth canal, they inherit the mum's microbes. And so he certainly would've inherited stuff from me right from the get go. So,did he inherit that beautiful, rich diversity that ideally that's what children need to inherit.

And when I was breastfeeding, what was that? Translocation? So there's also, even right back to, when I was carrying him, I had a lot of health concerns. So yeah, he his little setup wasn't ideal. and then we found that he did have this infection and we know that,infection's part of that Clostridium family, they get into the brain and they alter cognitive function.

And that, that moment where we're like. Oh my gosh. Yeah. This is not just a diagnosis of, ASD with a collection of symptoms. Yeah. This is a very, hard true diagnosis of an infection that we know gets into the brain, and so off we went. On another grand adventure, which led us to going to Canada for a, a gut transplant and this whole wild ride.

And then I like just learned so much about the gut microbiome and, I was still in the academic space at that time, so I had access to a lot of research papers and I had access to, other universities and then I like just started delving into microbes and probiotics and I created my cultures and then other families were like, what?

Like what are you guys doing over there? Yeah. And so then I, went back to study, in integrative nutrition and, and then 10 years later, here we are.yeah. Yeah, it's such a journey. And also. The most beautiful part about it is he is thriving now, which I love.

And he did get a transplant, is that right? yeah. Yeah. And that was really successful. It really was. All three of us did actually, I was part of it, Noah was part of it. My son and my daughter was part of it as well. So we were considered a cluster family as part of this research, and Maya was three and Noah was five and all the iconic stuff.

Like we flew to Canada and it was minus 25 and your hair would freeze if you walked outside. So I feel like even for Australians, like I was quite comfortable. I've been in, I've camped in a lot of those environments with my outdoor sort of stuff. But my husband, how do you drive in these environments?

And yeah, so it was just such a grand adventure. But it was even after the first day of the microbial transfer and Noah started using words and started speaking, we were like. You know what? We've sold our house, we've done everything that this, this feels the path. Yeah. Yeah. Because they did say to you that he would be non-verbal.

So that is just absolutely incredible. Yeah. And just the day after. Yeah. Yeah. And this goes into, what we are gonna be talking about today and just how powerful gut health really is. And it's so amazing to see so much more research into this area since you've had to go through that experience.

And yeah, it's nice to know that we do have more evidence-based research behind it now. Yeah. I know this is a really big question to answer, but if you had to explain in simple terms why gut health is so important. I love that. because it is pretty simple. So our gut is basically the seat of every mechanism and every beautiful function within our body.

And so when we're. Tired when we are, sleep deprived when our mood is low, when our knees are hurting, when we are bloated, when our teeth are bleeding, when we brush them,so many things within our body. When all these little whispers are happening for us, the gut is the seat of that.

So these beautiful little microbiota that we have in our gut, they have a really important role to play, and we need rich diversity. We need lots of these little microbiota and they just, they're just like the factory. They're just pumping out all of this beautiful support for us. Cognitively our skin, our mood, our digestive system.

So many aspects and it really does start within our gut, which is our second brain. It's the, the key kind of seat, the pillar of everything. So for me, if anything's going on in someone like, okay. Let's have a look what's going on in your gut microbiome? Because it's the workhorse of our body.

Yeah. It's, there's just the center of everything. Which is why we need to nourish it as much as we can. Yeah. And how does a woman's gut microbiome change postpartum and then through perimenopause and menopause? 'cause I know that is quite significant, especially in the perimenopause, menopause space at the moment, looking at the gut health side of things.

But obviously postpartum is such a big change as well, that, we just don't get told about. when we leave the hospital, something I always say is that everyone has an opinion on how to keep your baby alive, but no one tells you what you know, we need to do to nourish our own health.

And a lot of that comes down to our gut health and hormones. A hundred percent. Yeah. So post birth or perimenopause,we, actually, let's take it right back. Yeah. So in a. Female's life. We've got these three really quite significant, stages or steps within our life. We obviously go through puberty.

We have our birth, and then we have perimenopause. And these are really important and we know a lot about what happens to our gut during these times. And very new research is coming out at the moment about actually what's happening in our brain, which is really exciting. There's a lot of neural pruning that happens the same as it does in puberty, as it does in pregnancy, and as it does in perimenopause.

So that real kind of pruning down of those neurons of where were the keys, what was my name? and we prune down like a rosebush. Get rid of the fluff. I've, I've already learned how to drive a car. I've already learned how to put the dishwasher, dishes away.

I've already learned how to say hi to someone. So we just prune away the fluff and come back and then we start to reshape neurally into this new phase, whether it be puberty, postpartum, or perimenopause. And how we narrowly prune has a lot to do with the phases of our life. postpartum, it's like everything prunes down, keep that baby alive.

It's as simple as that. Like nothing. It's superfluous. Nothing else matters. So what you did at your job four weeks ago before you gave birth superfluous. Now it's just keep the human alive. Yeah. And I love that about our bodies, but within our gut microbiome, it's trying to, talk and it's trying to have that connection with.

The lowest estrogen and progesterone that's happened. Yeah. And it is also trying to survive this storm of lack of sleep. Yeah. Lack of sunlight, stress, overwhelm, that kind of, that deep in, change in our bodies, natural rhythms, circadian rhythms. So there's a change in our body's interaction with the greater natural world and the circadian rhythms and so forth.

Our sleep has changed, our stress is high, but in, in that time, estrogens come down and progesterones come down. Yeah. And so the, the gut microbiome can change significantly in that moment in time. And we have within our gut microbiome a subset called the estrobolome that sits within our gut microbiome and is very important for that interaction of estrogen.

How that estrogen talks to our brain and how our brain senses the world. And also with that progesterone, we need specific microbes in our gut to rebuild those hormones post birth. Yeah. And progesterone's Like our calm anti, yeah, anti anxiety. The calm, like sure. My baby's just had like diarrhea all over my face.

It's a real kind of chill pill. So we've got our estrogens trying to come in and that's our, let's get going. Yeah, let's get with the day and let's really go for it. And speaking to all of those neurotransmitters and the progesterone's is time to take your bath now and just chill and calm down.

But within our gut microbiome, our specific microbes, they're the ones that are making the metabolites to make all of this happen. And we are gonna have changes in our sleep patterns. We are gonna be stressed and we're, our appetite's gonna be all over the place. And so we've, and obviously we have the concept of translocation postpartum, which is when we are breastfeeding.

Our microbes that we have will come through our breast milk and inoculate into our little BS bodies. And so it's a really wonderful time for us to just nurture ourselves and literally have you eaten enough sauerkraut today? yeah. Yeah. I love that. And what are some signs that people can look out for of poor gut health, and what would be your top tips for transforming that gut health from a food perspective to ensure that, we are nurturing that process postpartum and beyond.

Yeah. Yeah. All the obvious ones. Yeah. So bloating, diarrhea, constipation, changes in color in your stool is a really important one. If your stools are yellow, white, light, brown, black, that's a real sure fire sign that it's time to address. So most people can correlate those symptoms to gut health.

Yeah. But it's the other ones that are so interesting that, there's a bit more airtime now, which is exciting. So that's the low mood and I think for women postpartum. Perimenopausal women or women in general, but very much those two significant eras of your life. If you are experiencing extremely low mood, then that is a very important sign that your gut microbiome is not serving your brain.

And our brain is. A very expensive organ takes about 25% of our energy that our body produces. Our gut produces that energy. And so if we are not getting that energy to the brain, we are gonna experience some postpartum mood changes. So if you're, getting those mood changes, it's not oh, I need to have more baths, or I need to rest more, or I need to sit out in the sun more.

It's Ooh, I need to address my gut microbiome because the. Correlation is so significant. Yeah. We are looking at our skin as well. So the skin tells us a lot about what's going on within our gut microbiome, and then very much around core functions, like memory. Yeah. And you know how, yeah. Brain fog, how our body's feeling within pain, is a really big one.

And then that irritability and the hyper vigilance, hyper focus, hyper stimulus, which new moms have anyway. Because their job is just to keep this human alive. Yeah. And that type of stimulating. Anyway, so I think and mood swings. I think the up and down mood swings is a huge one as well, isn't it? Yeah. we have a lot of moms experiencing that and all of these symptoms that you've mentioned as well.

It's so important to note that for so long that. We have, as a society been told to brush these symptoms off as mum life.and it's really damaging and that's, I know what you are out to do as well. But one of my biggest missions is to pave that way for, a new version of motherhood where we do acknowledge that there are so many things that we can do from a food and lifestyle perspective to support these symptoms that have just been labeled upon us.

Yeah. 'cause at the end of the day, we know motherhood is exhausting, it is tiring,we are going to experience some of these symptoms from time to time, but if you are experiencing these symptoms ongoingly for a long period of time, yeah, it's really important to address that. That is not normal.

It's not normal. And there are so many ways that you can support your health physically and mentally. But especially your gut health, a hundred percent. I'd love to see more gps talking about this rather than just, giving you a form to fill out and then diagnosing you with postnatal depression, which Yeah.

Is just, and alongside that there needs to be some form of a protocol to support moms from a food perspective as well. Yeah. So little story there. 'cause we all love a good story so we can place ourselves within that. And I'm happy to share a story of my own, My mood was very,it would swing when I was younger and certainly when, Noah was born.

But I always knew that if I moved my body or I got outside and did my, my sports and my outdoor sports or just went for a walk or moved my body, I knew, now I know the mechanics of that, but back then I just knew I go outside, I feel better, simple as that. Yeah. And so I at least had that one step because I had done a lot of, my outdoor sport.

So I, I could draw that correlation. So then I would literally finish breastfeeding Noah, and then I would go straight out and I would walk like 10, 15 Ks and he was like two weeks old or something. And I would lift my mood a little bit, but then I wasn't nourishing myself. For that amount of output of energy and then having to breastfeed and then having to run a house, and then being a mother, daughter, wife, auntie, like all the sister, all the kind of stuff.

And so my body was so deeply depleted and I was extremely, especially, after Mya, I was extremely undernourished and there were points that I couldn't actually lift my kids out of the cot because the pain in my back was so bad. My husband would have to come home from the hospital and lift the kids out of the cot for me and help me to get ready to get in the car or get out of the car.

He missed a lot of work because I couldn't do basic functions of literally lifting up my own children out of a cot. And it had so much to do with. Poor fueling. So undernourishment. Yeah. Yeah. So much to do with all the infections and the issues I had in my gut microbiome. Yeah. And just a complete lack of understanding about.

How much energy our brain and our gut and everything needs. And I look back at that time I was like, oh my gosh, that could have been very different.and I, yes, I do the same because I just look back then and I think, oh my gosh, the amount of things I could have done differently. But one of the things I talk a lot about is that, when we go through pregnancy, our body goes through such a vigorous process to grow this small human and, it would become severely depleted from essential nutrients.

And that's normal during pregnancy. Yeah. it's what's required to build this human. But the problem happens post birth when, we again are told how to keep this human alive, but no one tells us about all the depletion our body has gone through and that we need to physically add back. That depletion and all those nutrients back in.

Yeah. And then, a lot of people don't, you add y years of sleepless nights eating kids leftover scraps and all the other stuff. And before you know it, you are severely depleted and you're struggling with basic nutrients In the body. So we need to consciously focus on nourishment and it's not about adding yet another thing to your to-do list.

Yeah. It's about just the basic essentials that we need to go back to. And I think the problem is that no one is spoken to about that. no one tells us, no one, I didn't know that, during pregnancy, my Omega-3 is, severely depleted and it's a big part of what my body needs post-birth as well.

And basic things like magnesium and all these vitamins that can really help us with those hashtag mum life symptoms. Yeah. Just get brushed off. So yeah. I'm glad you shared that. Yeah. Yeah. and then, it, you think about your experiences and, when you are under fueled, yeah. Your body is in a very hypervigilant state.

It's in that scanning, assessing, stress state, eight, and we can't make memories and we can't remember things and we can't feel deep, joy, oxytocin, connection, all of those really key, significant, joyful aspects of giving birth. And even just the long term. side of things. So for me, I've really, as I've become nourished and as I've understood so much about my body and cognitive,nutrition and all, and gut nutrition and all this kind of stuff, I'm so present with my children and I've literally had to build that co-regulation with them a lot later.

Whereas when you're a very nourished, very well rested, balanced mom, that co-regulation and that connection is built like day one, Yeah. Whereas, complicated births, fatigue after the births, all these kinds of things and medications. Yeah. And so especially, yeah, actually with both my kids, it was a lot later could I kind of be present with myself?

Huh, I've got some resources like now. I don't wanna just keep you alive. I wanna connect and I wanna regulate with you, and I wanna cuddle on the couch. And I wanna cheer you on the netball court, and I wanna talk about Japanese anime. Oh my god. all this stuff. Yeah, all this. Yeah. I love that you said that because something that I look back on and not just about, all the things that I could have done to keep myself from developing an autoimmune condition and all those things, but something I do look back on is that I don't remember my kids as much as babies.

Yeah. Yeah. And it really makes me sad, especially my daughter, because it's when I was really struggling with burnout and I don't remember so much of her as a baby, and something that I say, you know what? The biggest takeaway I've had from focusing on my health and nourishing my body and all of that, the biggest thing that I take away from that is the fact that I can live in the present moment.

yeah. With my children. It's the biggest gift. It's definitely given me. Oh, so I'm so glad you said that. It is. It's just amazing what it does in your life. A hundred percent. And then you're a very, then you are role modeling. Yeah. a whole different future. Yes. oh, it's just so beautiful to watch, as you, you go like, my daughter's going through puberty years and you're very calm and centered and in that mentorship role and celebrating their, their time at, at this time, and then sitting with them and having the time to be very grateful for the new hairstyle that, needs, 15 minutes to chat about.

And I obviously don't care about my hair, makeup or my clothes. Like I'm an outdoor ed person, It's like the last thing and I'm like, oh, sweetheart, I love how you've pushed that back. How to even tell the difference. I know it's, but it's being present and sharing that. And, being along there, which is something it, which is something a lot of people struggle with if they are still in that phase of burnout.

Yeah. And yeah, I'm glad you touched on that 'cause it really is, like that is the bigger picture out of all of it. It's being able to be present and joyful. And burnout takes so much of that away. A hundred percent. yeah. and then you're modeling the next yes.

So now you know, it's really beautiful that. I can see with my nieces and my daughter, and they're going through, pregnancies and all these kind of things and it's, you know, you are really seeing them and watching them and yeah, this is cool. taking it all in. Yeah. Yeah. I know we went on a little bit of a tangent, but Yeah.

I love that topic, so I can talk to that all the time. But I would love to chat more about the food perspective of things when it comes to gut health. I'm a huge fan of fermented products. and to use fermented products for good gut health, but a lot of people tend to jump to probiotics first, or, supplement style probiotics to do this.

What are your thoughts on that? I have thoughts, so I can imagine. I really wanted to ask you this question. Okay. So in this theme of mama and, mentorship and modeling food as medicine. Is always going to be for me what I wanna teach in my household. I don't wanna teach supplements as medicine.

Yeah. I don't wanna, teach my kids to open a cupboard or open the fridge and powder something and suddenly we are magically, okay, I wanna really just model that sharing of food and, and creating vitalism. And also that it's obtainable and for everybody. It's not oh, I can afford that probiotic supplement, so I'm going to be well, and then I can't afford it and I can't be, so from that mentorship perspective, when my kids, move out of home and they've got $2.50 and they're like, slumming it and, all they, all those kinds of things, I want them to know they can whip up a batch of kraut or they can whip up, some coconut yogurt and it's super cost effective and it's nourishing.

It will actually impact their gut microbiome. So I have very strong opinions on, I don't feel like probiotic powders have a real direct impact on the gut microbiome, like fermented foods do. Yeah, for a number of reasons. Fermented foods obviously are synergistic. They have the right pH, they survive the GI tract differently.

They provide nutrients. they support, metabolites to be produced within the gut. They just have so many complete functions, whereas. Probiotics are more linear and mechanistic, and you don't even know if they're surviving GI tract. and our body recognises sauerkraut.

Yeah. Like all other fermented foods. It's real and it's natural and it's something that our body recognizes. Yeah. whereas with probiotics, a lot of them are synthetic, Yeah. Yeah. And unless you've come in and seen us in clinic and you've had a very comprehensive test done. Yeah.

It's also, I feel unsafe to be just going around and picking off the shelf. Yeah. A probiotic because you might actually have an overgrowth in your gut of, we, I see a lot of lactobacillus overgrowths in people's guts and in, their stool results. But they're going and will make that worse.

Yeah. So it, yeah. Push it past what is appropriate within the body and then we're dealing with another problem because Yeah, it changes the pH and then other microbes can't grow. And that environment, it requires certain fuel sources. And then,micro, microbiota like Amania for example, will die off because the lactobacillus is taking the space and Amania has a really important role to play or pky and so forth.

So we can't pull levers like that within our gut microbiome. And do you find that the fermented style foods will generally be able to nourish. Majority of those good gut bacteria that we need. yeah, a hundred percent. There's definitely anomalies there where people are, very unwell. They might have autoimmune conditions, they might have, ulcerative colitis and specific conditions and, but we've got their still tests, so we know what we're up to.

And then we are making actionable changes based on information. And it's known to be true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also, not to mention that a lot of fermented food is actually very affordable. Yeah.which I love as well. And for example, if you're making sauerkraut at home, it's too ingredients, cabbage and salt, you make such a powerful, potent remedy for your gut health that can really transform a lot of your gut health.

Yeah.yeah. I love that. And in terms of, I know we've spoken about things like sauerkraut, fermented foods. What are some other tips you have around food when it comes to gut health? Other different types of foods? Yeah. So I think we're very across probiotics. And I think like I, maybe I live in a bubble and we're not, but I think most people are getting there.

And you can see it, you walk into Woolies and you can see the word probiotics lit, literally written on big brand companies. And we can even see CAU counts on the side of Probio. So you see a few as the colony forming unit. So literally how many probiotics are in, say, a coconut yogurt? Yeah.

And we, we can now see that, 10 years ago I would've been like, imagine a world where you could go into we Yeah. and it's wonderful. But, you know what's really important is, yes, we wanna have those probiotics, but unless we feed them. With prebiotics. Then we've got these strains, which are called commensal strains, which is what you find in fermented foods.

So lactobacillus and bifido strains and certain bacillus strains are commensal. So they come on in, they hang out for a bit, and then they pass on out. They don't stay there. So that's why the fermented foods are wonderful. We wanna just keep the flow going, but while they're in there and while whilst we're growing.

Different microbes. we've gotta fertilise them and we've gotta feed them. And that is just as significant as having your probiotics. Yes. And once again, it's all the tried and true. The old school, we know that inulin in garlic and onions is just so powerful. Yeah. And then we know that pectin in a good old fashioned apple, but I prefer it to be a fermented apple, that feeds those bifido strains.

Yeah. And Coffee, for example, has polyphenols in it, which are a very significant prebiotic for all sorts of microbes within our gut microbiome. Those polyphenols are extremely important. raw cacao, coughing,And matcha too. Yeah. 'cause I'm such a matcha and I know the polyphenol count in matcha is really high.

Yeah. Or a good quality matcha. Yeah. I always like to say, without prebiotics, probiotics can just not thrive. Yeah. they feed our good gut bacteria. So it is so important. And I think that also goes back to, making sure we are eating a variety of different plant foods. Which, is just important for so many reasons from a depletion perspective, but then also from that gut health perspective as well. Yeah. The different colors of all the fruits and veggies, they're all gonna feed those different microbes and just nourish our body from such a deep perspective Yeah.

Alongside those prebiotics. Yeah. And one of these wonderful little, and it's so much fun to do as a family, you draw up a. A chart and like you get the stickers out and you can really go to town on it and you really wanna try to get over the course of the year 20, 200 different types of foods, spices, teas, herbs, and you wanna try and get that 200.

And ideally you want as many as possible during the week. So when, my kids are teenagers, so we are not stickers at the moment, it's just whatever. But, when they were young, we literally would do stickers, like how many different types of foods did we eat this week and who did we feed in our gut microbiome and how we, what's happening within our bodies.

And it's actually just lots of fun. And if you make a curry. You've got 20 different varieties in a curry. You've got your turmeric and you've got your curcumin, and you've had your onions and your garlic, and it's not a hard thing to do at all. It's actually quite easy to reach that number. A lot of people do freak out when I, when I always say, try and have at least 30 different plant foods a week.

Yeah. But herbs and spices count. so it is actually a lot easier to reach that count. Then you think Something I tell some of my clients to do is every time you go to the grocery store for a few weeks, grab a piece of fruit or vegetable that you've either haven't had in a long time or you've never had at all.

yeah. And it doesn't have to be cooked, in a complicated way. You can eat it raw, steam it, whatever you do with it, but serve it and let, it's not just from, you know, it's obviously feeding all that beautiful gut bacteria. You're getting all the different nutrients from it. But it also helps form that healthier relationship with food for kids as well.

They're constantly seeing that variety, different type of plant foods in the house, which is a whole nother topic. But, yeah. I'm so passionate about that topic. 'cause kids are designed to be scared and hesitant of food. Yeah. 'cause ideally when they're crawling Yeah. More in that ancestral time, they would've picked a berry off that would've killed them.

And so it's literally ingrained in our neural pathways to be hesitant of food. And so they're, when they're crawling, there's all these,pathways and all of this mechanistic sort of behavior that's happening. And so we need to get down with them and explore with them and build confidence because that's part of their kind of remit.

They're designed to, no, something might happen here. They're designed for it. So it's up to us looking at it. Yeah. To be able to make them feel comfortable with it. Yeah. yeah. Some of our clients, oh, bless them, real picky eating kind of stuff. And I'm like, okay, now you're gonna throw food all over the floor.

Like literally your worst nightmare. You just throw all over the floor, the kitchen floor. Then you're both gonna get down and you're gonna crawl. 'cause of course crawling, activates the cerebellum and it does all, it brings down the amygdala and that stress and gets the executive function going and crawling, impacts the gut microbiome.

And then you are gonna crawl around with them and pick food off the ground and just start chewing on it. And you're gonna do that, and you're gonna model it and then, It's tip, it goes so far. It does. It really does help. And if you're willing to do it, it is such a beautiful way to nourish that relationship with food for them.

yeah. a lot of moms obviously, that I work with, struggle with bloating, postpartum, and even more so as they enter those perimenopausal years. Why do you think this is, and do you have any small tips for bloating in particular? That's a really good one. Yes. So bloating has a lot to do with undigested food.

there's lots of reasons why bloating happens. There's definitely a fluctuation in estrogen that contributes to that. But if we are just gonna focus on the gut microbiome. When we don't have enough stomach acid or when we don't have enough digestive enzymes or bile formation, we're gonna have food that goes down through our digestive tract, and it is not treated appropriately by our GI tract.

So ideally, we eat something, our SIV enzymes start the job. So they're like, okay, I'll start doing something here. I'll start breaking it down. Then it gets down into the stomach and the stomach's like, okay, I'll shoot over some acid for you. Some stomach acid. So we, our stomach needs to be at a pH of a round one and then moves on further down, and the liver and the gallbladder are, okay, I'll get some bile happening for you to emulsify those fats.

There are so many things that are happening when we put something into our mouths. Yeah. And it takes high performance from our body, and it takes a optimal function for our body to do that. So you can't be tired, you can't be stressed, you can't be, lack of sunlight. You can't be eating on the run in the car.

You can't be sucking down. I don't even know what those things are called, but everyone's got them. Yeah. And, like you can't be sucking things through straws. Yeah. Because it, it interrupts that optimal pattern. And so what I see is from bloating, it is just, Dr. Libby's rushing women's syndrome and it's, just trying.

To be everything and we are not actually doing those key functions. Yeah, I always see that the bloating also comes from like low zinc levels, low B vitamin levels. there's some undernourishment going on there as well under fueling, so the brain doesn't know what's going on and so it's like, oh, are we digesting now?

And also when we're in a high stress cortisol response, our pancreas is just too busy sending off messages to make more insulin. As opposed to making digestive enzymes to break down that food. Yes. And so if we're experiencing bloating after meals during the day, random bloating, then it's oh, how can I really slow the pace down?

slow down? Yeah. Yeah. and support that. So, you know, we'd be having apple cider vinegar before you eat. You'd be having your sauerkraut to bring down that pH. Yeah. You'd be sitting there. Really just mindfully I'm gonna eat now and I'm gonna be part of this process and be present and yeah. and, what are your thoughts on the bidders as well before you eat?

Because they're generally loaded with zinc as well. Yeah, so something you can do is, have some raddish, some Radicchio , some rocket a hundred percent, just before you eat as well, alongside that apple cider vinegar. Yeah. Which can be really supportive. Yeah. Something else I also like to tell my clients to do is if you find yourself really bloated after meals, something that can be really.

Helpful is making sure that you take a couple of deep belly breaths Before you eat and they at first look at me like I'm crazy and how is this related? But you touched on that where the cortisol, when our body's in a high state of cortisol, all our body's focusing on is reducing that cortisol.

It's not breaking down our food. which in turn causes that food to be not broken down properly. Causes our body to storm more fat. Yeah. Yeah. there's so many things that happen there. So even just taking a couple of deep belly breaths before you eat Yeah. Goes such a long way. Yeah. There's a fun family trick.

I normally have it here 'cause I'm always showing my clients, but you can get the oxymeters. Now a lot of people know of them because when you go into the hospital, they pop them on your finger and they measure your oxygen saturation and your heart rate. Yes. Yeah. And you can have them sitting on the table and as a family, okay, we're gonna sit down and eat our meal, and you pop your oxymeter on.

And if your heart rate is above 75 on the oxymeter and your oxygen saturation's a bit low, you're not gonna digest that food. Yeah. So it's very like fun data for kids. Yeah. But it's it's by feedback. It's the cold hard facts. Like I am not in a position right now to digest when I'm eating. Yeah. And we know you take those belly breaths, then you can literally watch it on the oxy.

Whoa. I'm like, my heart rate's gone to 65. Let's tuck in, let's go for it. and kids. They can't, they need that feedback. They need that, data. So it's a really great one to, explain to your kids, but also for moms that are rushing. yeah. I did my belly breaths. It's no, you didn't, you're still elevated.

You can, you can't lie with the data. And it's so simple. You don't need to be in a meditative state. Yeah. You just need to focus on your breath for, five turns, whatever it is, and it goes such a long way.A topic I'm really excited to touch on with you quickly is the gut brain connection. And I know you have so much knowledge around this, and something I always say is our thoughts have a direct impact on our physical health and our physical health can influence our thoughts.

Can you break that connection down a little bit more? Yeah. Yeah. In two minutes. Wow. Yeah. I could talk all day on this, but we, I know we basically have this, we have to do another episode just on the gut brain connection. 'cause I know you have so much knowledge around this. yeah. Key mechanics between our gut and our brain.

We have this vagus nerve and it's this wonderful bidirectional superhighway. And so it literally is, our gut is talking to our brain, and our brain is talking to our gut. Previously, as we were just talking about digesting food, our microbes within our gut help us to synthesize amino acids. Let's choose, tryptophan for example.

We need those microbes in our gut to se, to synthesize that tryptophan, along with cells within our gut then makes serotonin. Yeah, that serotonin heads up into our brain and our brain finishes off the job and suddenly we feel joy and we feel happy. If our gut's not working, if we don't have those microbes that make the short chain fatty acids that make, that, do all those processes, our mental health is significantly impacted and vice versa.

If we are operating out of our amygdala, part of our brain, our stress center in our brain, it's then through the vagus nerve. it's sensing. Are we okay? And then we are getting feedback from the brain as from the gut. No, we're not. Okay. And so then the brain operates in this real hyper vigilance stress response.

So then we're not getting the right neurotransmitters up and the brain is sensing inappropriate messages top down. And so it's, that's when you get that, just in simple terms, when you're feeling anxious or something's made you anxious, you don't feel it in your brain. You feel it in your tummy.

And that's that vagus highway sending that from that brain, like you, from that part of the brain into the tummy. Yeah. Yeah. And you get those butterflies and all your bowels suddenly need to evacuate very quickly, which would always happen for me before a mountain bike race. And I'm like, I'm on the start line on a bike.

This is, this should not be happening right now. But that's the reality of how it works. But yeah, so it's not one or the other. Yeah, and for some people. When their gut diversity is so poor or their guts are really needing deep nourishment, you go, you start with the gut first and then it works up for other people.

They're so hypervigilant that the gut microbiome's not going to improve until that's taken care of. And that's why that holistic approach to whole body health is so important. So you can be working on both avenues and then they can meet in the middle and okay, we know what we're up to now.

yeah. Exactly. I don't know if you probably might know this study, but I only just briefly looked at it a while ago. It was a university that created, I think it was a meditation style. Protocol for people struggling with IBS. And the results were phenomenal. How much it had helped these people with, severe IBS and other gut issues.

And it basically, I mean, alongside food, but I think the meditation part was what they studied. there was certain types of meditations that they did every single day. I think it was twice a day. and they were, the meditations were centered around their gut health. love it. and the results were phenomenal.

so just goes to show how powerful Yeah. Connection is. Something else that,connects this, which is really important is, when it comes to things like feeling out of control around food and sugar cravings. And, a lot of people blame their willpower and self-control on this, but, you would know a lot of this comes down to our gut health And the taste receptors in our gut health. Yeah. which plays such a big role in the way we choose food in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And glucose regulation, our short chain fatty acids within our gut, which are metabolites from our microbes, they play a huge pl part in glucose, metabolism or sensitivity and how we're actually getting energy.

Yeah. So if we don't have those gut microbes, we can't produce butyrate. We can't regulate and moderate our glucose capabilities and regulation, so then our body thinks that we're in deficiency with regards to energy resources. And so just, I'll just have some more. I'll just have some more. Because your body thinks, and your brain thinks there's no nu, no nutrition, there's no energy on board.

More, more, more, more, more. Because the mechanics of that energy production. Isn't optimal. And then you're exactly right. If you've got candida hanging out in your small intestine, it's just gonna send up those messages to the brain. Could you please eat 10 donuts today? That would be lovely if you could do that for me.

whereas if you've got beautiful, beneficial microbes in your gut, they're sending out messages, oh, I'm feeling like a chicken. So with some onions and some garlic, can you whack some bone broth in there? and they're sending those messages about what they need to survive and thrive and yeah.

So someone's cravings. when I go through a health history, I like. I've been doing this for so long now I can, I bet myself internally, like when I see their test results, I'm like, I, I think they've got X, Y, Z and then I compare it to the test results because of their food choices and their behaviors and staying up late at night or they've got knee pain or all of these things and it's yep, I knew that would be in there.

That's the donuts. And I say that 'cause I was the donut hot, crisps. Yeah. the salt, the salty chips, the I was all of that. Yeah. You were the salty craver. Yeah. Yeah. Kirsty, if there's a mama who is currently in the trenches and she's listening to this episode and she has no idea where to start.

Yeah. What is some practical advice or strategy that you can give her? That she can start today? Yeah. Okay. So the most practical advice, the cheapest doesn't cost a thing is sunlight. No. Now I know this has nothing to do with, it has everything to do with the gut and the brain and everything we've talked about, but it seems like a disconnect.

But sunlight does so much on every function within your body that we've talked about today, and. Some of the studies to me are quite alarming for how little time people are spending outside. So it's just so easy. oh, I'm just, I wanna hang out with the kids. Let's go to the park outside, as opposed to, let's go to an indoor play gym.

just simple changes like that. So the first thing I would say is sunlight, and the next thing is be a complete sleep. Absolute, just non-negotiable your sleep. Yeah. Does everything. I mean it, even when we were coming back to those core memories, if we don't get into our REM sleep Yeah.

we can't actually file away in the filing cabinet, our core memories. they don't get filed. They're very hard to recall them back. And so you wanna remember these times and you wanna be like present and part of it. And if we're not getting into that REM sleep, it's not going to happen. Yeah.

Obviously sleep does everything anyway. It regenerates, we know so much. But that core memory, that core function, anti-inflammatory, supporting our gut microbiome really is just one of the most important pillars of health. Isn't just goes through such a vigorous restoration process when we sleep, yougetting rid of stuff, reprogramming stuff and Yeah.

And look, and I know that can be a really sensitive topic for moms with little kids, but something that, I say is. Try and, if it means that you need to go to bed earlier, go to bed earlier. If it means that you need to ask for more help, ask for more help. we tend to, as moms, go through this phase where, the kids go to sleep when they're that little bit older and it's this is the only time I get to myself.

So then there's all these hours of binging Netflix. And I always say to people. What's more important, that little time that you get at night to watch mindless tv or how you literally feel for 12 hours of your day? yeah. Choose one because one is always gonna sacrifice the other of those two things.

and what's more important. And if it means that you need to, start, I always say to people, start slow, push your bedtime back by 15 minutes every night until you get to that good minimum eight hours. And as women, we really need that eight hours at a minimum. Yeah. I love that you said sleep.

'cause it, it really is just so important. It's just a key pillar in a hierarchy. And I think this is really hard for women.we aren't even allowing ourselves enough time to look at our hierarchy of the day and decision making. So women are excellent at doing it for their friends or their workplace or everyone else.

when we look at, okay, what are my key pillars? if you are choosing sunlight and sleep that goes above everything else. That's your hierarchy, that's your decision making model. the, nothing comes above that. And I would also comment, if you are asking for me time at night, that is because you are undernourished and deeply nutrient deficient and your brain's not coping.

So when you are nourished and you're present, you don't need me. Time. you just really don't, you're like, oh, everything just feels so balanced and lovely and I've. I've come from needing so much space from my kids and I need more. I need more. And now like I just, where are they? I need them all the time because I, you're present, you've got resources.

You're not overstimulated, overwhelmed, overstressed, and you just literally don't need the me time. The me time is a undernourished body in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you've mentioned that part of your hierarchy, writing down the hierarchy. Of what, I love that. That's a really good tactic.

I think even just sitting down and thinking, okay, what am I. Top three non-negotiables and listing them out in the hierarchy. I love that. Yeah. And as a new, newer mom, a, a mom with kids at school, whatever, wherever you're at as a female, you can tick that hierarchy off. And we're all great at multitasking, 

like I will tick off my hierarchy of, sunlight and movement. These things are the ultimate priorities for me. So I just take my kids to the park, I'm outside, and then we do running races. Oh, there's my movement. Yeah. and it doesn't have to be alone all the time. no. Yeah.

So you finding more time in your day that you don't have, so many things can be intertwined. I think as a mom, the best habit you can have is learning how to habit stack. Yeah. Yeah. And one of my greatest. if I would say anything to moms is, do not wake up early and go to the gym. I'm really dead against that because you're not modeling anything to your children by doing that.

and there's so many things about that I feel it, it is a real disconnect to what women's bodies need. Yes. But we deeply need to move our bodies. And so going, like for example, sprint sessions are really important for women for multiple reasons. BDNF pathways and upregulation of gut and all sorts of stuff.

So take your kids out, draw two lines and just sprint your heart out and do it outside. You are with your kids. You're sharing time, they're watching you train. Oh, we move our bodies. We are healthy body family. we just move, and then you're modeling that, or just at the playground you can do chin ups, you can do this, you can do, there's so many cool things that you can do.

Yeah. And you are outside. Yeah. If you've got older kids as well. I like to, when I drop my kids off at soccer, I, that's when I do my jog. Yeah. I'll go jog around the block where they're playing. Yeah. Yeah. so just finding there's always time. There's always time. And it doesn't have to be early in the morning all the time.

Yeah. For me particularly, I do like to get up early, but I know that my body needs food. Mm.I wouldn't function, doing, intense exercise on an empty stomach. And I personally the same as you don't believe any mom should do that to her body and her hormones? No, but that's a whole topic.

Topic isn't, but it's also you want your children to wake up and you're there. You want them to co-regulate at the start of the day with you? Yeah. like literally, my kids still come in now at 17 and 15 into bed to say good morning. Like full cuddles, my know. Yeah. And di my husband's I know where I sit.

And you know,but then the whole, we're all regulating together. Yeah, exactly. This is how we started our day. Yeah. Now I wasn't always like that. I've had to learn this along the way, so it's, no one's perfect. And if you start later, like I had to when my kids were a bit older, great, who cares?

But you regulate the day and you settle and you calm the family. We are not rushing back in, coming back from the gym and okay, whose lunchboxes are done? Is everyone ready? I've gotta get in the car in 15 minutes and Oh, this is, yeah, a lot. I'm always really conscious of that, of not, putting that rush onto my kids.

Yeah. it's not doable every month. no. But I do check myself when I do it. when I use the word hurry, rush, we're gonna be late. Try to avoid those things as much as I can because I'm just like, I'm just adding this extra pressure of anxiousness to them that they don't want to be consuming at that age.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's not their part to play. That's adult life. That's not kids life. And if we are well slept, we wake up early enough to have a nice time together and to share. And then we can get in the car and we can role model and Yep. you do your drink bottle and wear your clothes and your teaching responsibility and there whereas rushing ends up moms doing everything.

Yeah, exactly. And kids don't end up being part of the process. And then they're just not very functional adults, which I have taught lots of those kids and adults. So, um, yeah, you can then you. Then they become really independent little awesome little humans that can do the jobs for themselves. And yeah, then it becomes easy.

It's like dishwasher, that's your job, not mine. Yes. I love that.before we go, Kirsty, tell me a little bit more about cultured wellness and your products. ah, culture, wellness. My 10 year baby. Yeah. so we have our clinic side of things. So we have our naturopaths, nutritionists, all of our prescribed herbs, all of our testing, and that's all done online.

So we see people literally from all over the world. It's very cool. this week I've seen probably five different countries of people coming in, which is good fun. so we've got. That side. So if anyone needs to see us for stool testing or, really tricky gut issues, hormone issues that require testing, prescribed herbs treatment plan side, that we've got that.

And then we've got all of our beautiful, cultures to make your own fermented foods and prebiotics and sourdough. And basically it, everything's just an evolution of myself. It was like about seven years ago, oh, the research is talking a lot about these prebiotic fibers. I wanna make a sourdough that does that.

So then I develop the diversity dough and, oh, the research is talking a lot about this. Oh, I'll make the gut seal premix. So it, yeah, it's just an evolution of what I've learned and what I wish I want my family to have. And then I've made it because our clients need it as part of their protocols. Yeah.

And then we've just made it. And, yeah. So the, it's funny, the products are just really what's needed for someone moving through all of their different phases and recovery, their gut healing journey. Yeah. Which, yeah. Is amazing. And where can everyone find you? So it is cultured wellness with a k. So kulturedwellness.com.

I have a bit of fun on my Instagram when I've got time. That's a lot more about my family. It is very much like a travel show on there. A lot with all the hiking and climbing. I love that. Yeah. And then another part that's very passionate for me is the, when I work with people, we really get them to a point that it's I'm just feeling so well, let's challenge my body.

Let's do something that really steps me out of my comfort zone to learn more about myself. And that's the whole other part of culture wellness, which is our hikes. So we take people on multi-day, pretty high, pretty adventurous, five day hikes, everything on your backs out into the wilderness. No phones, no stimulus, nothing.

You are literally exposed. Yeah. Where, what state you are in, where are you located? So I am in the sunny coast at the moment. I'm originally an SA person, but Yeah. In the sunny coast. Yeah, in the So you deal with those hikes all over Australia? Yeah. Or mainly. Yeah. Okay. Yep. So this year's the Vic Alps and last year was Tasie, previous to that was the Vic Alps and people from all pillars of where they are in their gut healing journey.

We've got we just, we have naturopaths that just wanna come along and. A lot of people, know that nature-based therapy is a really key, important part, but I just literally have no skills, no gear. What do I cook, what do I do? And so the whole part of the hikes is the prep work and what shoes do I wear and how do I dehydrate my food and what clothes and sharing community, like really sharing time in place, which makes a big difference to health as well.

Yeah. And again, there's so many studies around nature and gut health. not to go backwards, but a quick one that I love that I always refer back to is the florist floor study. yeah. Which is amazing where they took the kids from the daycare centers and. Yeah. Yeah, that's a, that's one that I love.

Yeah. But thank you so much for all your beautiful knowledge, Kirsty, and just sharing this with the community. we'll make sure that we pop all those links in the show notes so you guys can find Kirsty, reach out to her, have a look at all the beautiful kultured wellness products that you can get your hands on.

and I will also tag Kirsty's Instagram so you can have a look at those amazing hikes. Kirsty, thank you so much. It's been such an honour chatting with you. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It was wonderful chat. I really enjoyed it. It was, thank you. See you soon. See ya.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope this conversation has inspired you to live your healthiest, happiest life. Don't forget to subscribe and tune in next week. Bye for now.