Episode Transcript

The Nourished Mama - Ep 25

Transcript 

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Nourished Mama Podcast. I'm your host, Ana Robinson, certified nutritionist and wellness coach plus fellow mama. This podcast is here to show you that you can live your healthiest. Happiest, most vibrant life as a mama. Each week I will be sharing different nutrition, lifestyle, and mindset hacks that are going to support you in your health journey.

You can expect realistic and sustainable advice plus strategies that can easily fit into your busy life as a mama, because without a nourished mama, there can't be a nourished home. So if you are committed to creating a life. Filled with vibrance for you and for the ones you love most, then you are in the right place.

So let's get into today's life-changing [00:01:00] episode. 

Welcome to another episode of The Nourished Mama Show. Today I am joined by the incredible Rhiannon. Rhiannon is a postpartum doula, supporting and advocating for moms post-birth. Rhiannon, you have such an important and impactful role for mothers, and I'm really honored and excited to share your knowledge and wisdom with my community.

Welcome to the podcast. Ana, thank you so much for having me. I, I'm equally very excited to be here to, to share what I do and talk about food and Nourishing Mamas. It's, oh gosh, on a cold day cold, wet, rainy day today. It feels, perfect. So thank you so much for having me today. Oh, I'm honored.

Rhiannon, tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you actually got into this space. Sure. So I am a mama of two beautiful girls. My big girl is [00:02:00] eight and my little girl is four. And, I guess so many other women who start their own businesses in this space, it's comes from a very lived experience.

I, like so many other first time mamas. When I was pregnant with my eldest, I focused a lot on pregnancy and preparing for birth, which is really important. But I completely forgot about planning and preparing for what happened after my baby arrived. And, after incredible birthing experience, postpartum wasn't great.

we ended up in the NICU with some complications and It was almost like I was forgotten about. it was quite a traumatic experience. My husband was doing the best that he could and we lived with my mom at the time and I thought she would know being a mom of three herself, like what I needed. But she hadn't had that experience and so she didn't know what I needed.

And I walked away from my early postpartum feeling like. [00:03:00] That shouldn't have happened the way that it did, and I didn't expect to come into motherhood with these feelings of struggling and isolation and not really knowing what I needed, but having to give everything to my baby. So then fast forward to, planning to welcome a second baby into our family.

And even before conception, I knew that things were gonna be really different because I didn't wanna have a repeat of that experience. And so I, engaged with a postpartum doula, went to a workshop and she. opened my eyes a lot to some products and services that were out there. And also a lot of traditional ways that women are supported during postpartum that I wasn't really aware of.

so we planned a lot of things differently. We organised some postpartum meals. My husband took six weeks off work instead of two. we've set a lot of boundaries around visitors. We literally asked everybody we knew to bring us [00:04:00] food and not presents for the baby. and what resulted was the most incredible oxytocin filled, blissful first few weeks postpartum.

I just rode the oxytocin high and it was two weeks postpartum. I was on the couch with my baby and I just felt incredible and I was just like, this is how I want moms to feel. Not like how I felt the first time around and I started Googling. I was like, is postpartum doula? Can I, is that a job? Can I do that?

But then I was like, I've just had a baby. This is crazy. I need to park this. but 18 months later I was just like, okay, it is time. So I, I did some study and launched my business at, the beginning of 2023. Really? And I've been, I've been supporting mamas, yeah. Ever since. I just love that you were so prepared the second time around that you were able to actually experience that blissful moment of [00:05:00] oxytocin coming through, because I just think that would be so rare for moms to experience.

So I love that you were able to do that for yourself, and now you bring that into other people's lives, which is just so important and. Like I said before, your work as a postpartum doula is so important, but for people that don't know, tell us what a postpartum doula is. and what are some ways that you actually support moms during this phase and during this time?

I. Absolutely. people often confuse me for a birth doula, so thank you for asking this question. so doula essentially, it basically translates to support, so particularly through life transitions, Postpartum, as we know, is after you've birthed your baby. So I show up and serve and support women in their precious postpartum.

So after their baby has arrived. I don't attend births, like lots of birth, doulas [00:06:00] do, but I support women during their pregnancy as well because a lot of the work to plan and prepare for postpartum takes place during pregnancy. so I'm with them. every step of the way. And, I care very deeply and I want them to have a very empowered, supported, incredible birthing experience, however that unfolds for them.

but yeah, I really, I. Consciously decided to focus on the postpartum. And what I actually do during that time, from the moment a mama books me in during her pregnancy or some also book me once they're in postpartum, they have my emotional remote support. I. Text messages and phone calls and things when they need me, but I physically come to their homes in their postpartum at an organised time and I nourish them for about three hours.

And unlike a lot of visitors that might come to the home once a baby, I. Has arrived. They wanna come and see the baby, and they're all excited about the baby. [00:07:00] I am. I'm here for the mama. I'm not here for the baby. Because the baby needs the mom. The mom needs the support. So when I come, I bring Nourishing foods.

And also a lot of beautiful nourishing drinks as well. So teas and hot chocolates and date milks. And I'm making sure while I'm there that she's eating, she is drinking because those things are vital. mamas generally rest the whole time that I'm with them in their homes as well. So they're either.

On the couch, snuggled up with their baby, or sometimes mamas are in their beds as well, so they pretty much stay there the whole entire time. And I serve them food and drinks wherever they are. And I offer them some loving touch with gentle massages. I have the most beautiful copper, foot bath and I put a goddess bath soak in there and their feet have a beautiful soak.

I bring hot water bottles. so they're being very well nourished with food and drinks, massages. [00:08:00] And amongst all of that, I can squeeze in some domestic duties as well. So often I'll be sitting on the floor or next to 'em on the couch, folding some washing. I clean the kitchen. Typically, I will, change the bedsheets because as in postpartum, beds often get a bit messy with breast milk or, whatever else.

so yeah. Do laundry, clean the kitchen. If there's older kiddos around, which sometimes there isn't. I always include them in what I'm doing too, which is really beautiful. I have some little mini doulas and they help me give mom a foot massage or they, they help me do the laundry and things Yeah, whatever the mama needs, and this is the exception, not the norm, but it's something that I offer to mamas if she's had a really, challenging night the night before and hasn't quite worked out co-sleeping or just is feeling a bit touched out. There have been a few postpartum visits where I've just sat and held a baby for an hour or so while the [00:09:00] mom has a sleep.

But that's the exception, that's not norm. I've done more visits where I've never even touched the baby. I've just literally looked after the mama while she's been with baby the whole time. So yeah, it's really, it's goodness. Yeah, it's really special. I. My jaw is dropping because I'm just like, what a magic experience.

I'm just thinking, why did I not know? My kids are a little bit older now and I'm like, oh my goodness, I just wanna have another baby just so I can have this postpartum doula experience. That sounds incredible. Like I know I keep saying it, but your role is just so important in this space and just hearing that is.

I'm just speechless. That is incredible. It's true. And we know, you touched on this as well, there is just so much focus on the baby during this time and, we hear, we leave that hospital, and I always say this, but so many people tell you and give you an opinion [00:10:00] on how to keep this baby alive.

but nobody talks to you as a mother about what you need. and this phase is just so important. And can you touch a little bit on. Why it actually is important for mothers to also nourish and nurture themselves during that postpartum phase. Oh my gosh, yes. Absolutely. moms have just been pregnant for nine to 10 months or however long their pregnancy has gone for, and that in itself is huge.

Like the amount of nutrients that is required to grow a baby, whilst keeping yourself, doing everything that you normally need to do is massive. And then you've just birthed a baby, and that is huge. So pregnancy is huge, birth is huge. And now after you've gone through all of that,you need to recover from childbirth.

And a lot of moms are breastfeeding. And even if you're not breastfeeding, you know the work that's involved in formula, feeding a baby is a lot because they need to be fed very [00:11:00] frequently. and that requires a huge amount of energy. Replenishment, nourishment, nutrients that are all coming from the mom.

to answer your question, baby needs mum, mom needs to be looked after because the more mama is looked after, the more she's gonna be able to give to her baby. this is why it's so important that, we are nurturing and nourishing ourselves as much as we can during this time.

And that sort of brings me onto the next question perfectly, which is, how can Mother actually prioritise some of her own needs and without feeling like it's like another thing to add to her list. Totally. this is huge and I am still working on this conditioning myself. Yeah. most of us have grown up with witnessing our own mothers, giving everything and doing everything and putting everything else before herself.

Our society kind of glorifies, the hero mom that can do everything and be everything and have it [00:12:00] all together. And so when we are trying to do something different, you know when we're actually going, okay. I'm worthy of receiving this support because I, just that, I'm just worthy of that.

That in itself is super, super challenging. So the first thing is to know that it's okay. it's more than okay, it's necessary, to look after yourself in this way, in a way that I find sometimes it can be easier for women that are really struggling with that. Okay. It's okay for me to put myself first, is that we can be setting an example for our children.

So it's just okay, if it's really hard to do it for yourself, you can do it for your kids because they are watching and witnessing. Even our babies, they have the absorbent minds. They're taking it all in. They know that you're being nourished or if you're not. So I guess that's the first thing, and then you [00:13:00] just have to factor it into your life.

So it just needs to become something normal. And starting during pregnancy, which is I. It's so wonderful when mamas connected with me earlier in their pregnancy so that they can be starting to incorporate some of these practices throughout their pregnancy so that once baby is here, they're already used to doing these things.

and it's not something that they all of a sudden have to try and do. And it can be really simple little things, like sitting down to eat food or just eating food in the first place. like just eat. The amount of moms that I see that I'm like, have you had breakfast?

They're like, no, I haven't had breakfast. And it's 11 o'clock. I'm like, what's going on? Like, why have you not had breakfast? yeah. Start during pregnancy. and then continue those habits and know that you are worthy of doing those things. Yeah, and I'm glad you touched on that because I do think that's definitely the hardest, barrier to get through.

It's not even, it's not even [00:14:00] setting those. habits up and nurturing yourself. It's more about getting past the pa, the fact of really feeling like you're worthy of it as a mother, because, this baby comes into our life and all of a sudden, we've been conditioned to believe that life is not no longer about us.

It's about this baby. But the real reality is that, When we thrive, that's when our family thrives. It all stems from us. And something that I always say is, as a mother, we are the heart of the home. And our health and wellness really sets the standard for our children's health and wellness.

And that's something that I've been a huge advocate for a long time. I experienced extreme burnout. in motherhood, and a lot of it stemmed from, I didn't wanna ask for help. Mmmhmmm. I thought that I had to do it all myself. I was like, my life is no longer about me. I just have to keep going and do all of this.

But the truth is that I had a huge wake up call when I ignored all my burnout symptoms and then ended up in hospital for five days. [00:15:00] And I thought, and when I was lying in the hospital bed, that's when of, when I had this sort of aha moment where I was like, now I get it. Now I get why they tell you to put your oxygen mask on first.

Because being in the hospital I realised, I'm here for five days and I haven't seen my babies. and. That's why it's so important that we never feel selfish or guilty for prioritising our own needs because, and like you said, even as a baby, babies absorb that energy as well and it's what becomes normal to them.

Sometimes. I used to struggle to go out. Do my, I, I love jogging and running and I used to struggle to go out and do it because my daughter would just be like, mom, please don't go. And she would cry at the door and it would be this whole scene. and I used to think, I remember early on that I was like abandoning her and that I shouldn't go.

but I learnt over time that actually I want her to watch me leave as crazy as that. Sounds and she'll be fine. She's with her dad. but I needed [00:16:00] her to also watch me leave because I want her to do that in her future. I don't want her to sacrifice her own needs and her health for anybody. so it was really important for me to keep pushing through and do that.

So I'm really glad you touched on that. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's, it's like we are rewriting the story for ourselves and we are rewriting it for our children as well. but it's hard, right? Yeah. It's that mom guilt creeps up. and especially when our children are so little like that, zero to three, they're co-regulating from us.

So if our nervous system is like through the roof, it's gonna be so much harder for them to find a place of calm. So if we can look after ourselves, then it's gonna be so much easier for them to just thrive. yeah, it's like a, yeah, it's a dyad, right? It's like it's a mom and a baby dyad, yeah. It all works together.

Yeah. I love that. And I know you have some beautiful tips around [00:17:00] this. So I had to ask you, what are some of your nutritional tips for mothers during this postpartum phase? Amazing. I love this. so my postpartum doula mentor follows an Ayurvedic, approach. Which is traditional Indian. it's more, it's a whole way of life really.

Ayurveda. but it's consistent across a lot of traditional cultures. Very similar traditional Chinese medicine as well. But essentially, if you look at traditional cultures around the world, they all have the same themes when it comes to how to support the postpartum mama. And, the themes are consistent with the food as well, Warmth is a really big aspect of that. 'cause once a baby is born, a lot of warmth leaves the mama's body. And so the early postpartum time is the time to restore that warmth. So newborn mamas should always have things served to them. Warmth at the very least, that room temperature. So avoiding [00:18:00] cold things, which is a bit more challenging for mamas that are having babies at the height of summer.

But warm Ideally not having ice, not having like cold water from the fridge, not having raw, raw food either should be avoided during postpartum, so that carrot sticks raw nuts. Please don't have sushi. I feel like a lot of women get really excited if they've been avoiding it during pregnancy and they're like, yay, I can have sushi now.

Please wait. just wait a little bit longer or have cooked sushi, which, anyway. so yes, so having everything warm and avoiding raw, the raw is because often it's cold, but it's also harder to digest as well. Once you've birthed your baby or even before you birth your baby, this hormone called relax and comes into the system to help you open and stretch and birth your baby.

It also slows down digestion and that takes a little while to leave the body. And once you've birthed your baby, your body is very [00:19:00] busy, repairing and also, producing breast milk. And If you are putting foods into your body that are very hard to digest, that puts a lot more strain onto the body, especially if you've had any kind of medication or required any kind of surgery to birth your baby.

Constipation is quite a big thing too, and I know a lot of moms are always quite concerned about their first bowel movement after birth. So having warm foods that are really easy to digest is very important. so soups, broths, slow cooks, porridges, cones, anything that's, that you need to eat with a spoon.

That's probably the easiest way to remember. If I need to eat it with a spoon or drink it through a straw, it's probably gonna be good. those things are very hydrating as well 'cause there's a lot of liquid in them. yeah, warm things, avoiding raw, things that are easy to digest. things that are nutrient dense [00:20:00] as well, really important.

lots of fiber, lots of vegetables, slow cooked meats, broths, avoiding processed foods, avoiding seed oils. anything that's generally hard on the system. To digest. yeah, obviously caffeine, alcohol. I feel like sometimes a lot of women are excited to have their first alcoholic beverage as well.

again, I would say if you can hold off and it complicates breastfeeding as well. so yeah, I would wait, for all of those things that you're hanging out for. just wait a little bit longer. yeah, so yeah, I would say they're the big things. So warm. Cooked, easy to digest. Not processed and not raw.

Yeah. Glad you touched on that, especially because as well, during pregnancy our bodies go through such a vigorous process and one of the biggest ones is that we are depleted from a lot of those essential nutrients. things like Omega-3 fatty [00:21:00] acids. Iron, magnesium, and during pregnancy, this is totally normal and fine because, it's what's required to grow a healthy baby.

But what happens is that most women aren't told how to replenish their body's needs. And then you go. A couple of months postpartum. you are living on a little bit of sleep, eating kids leftover scraps. If you've got older kids or just, shoveling in what you can, then you get to a year postpartum thinking that you're supposed to feel better by now, but you feel 10 times worse.

And at the end of the day, that's because you really haven't replenished your body with all those nutritional needs. And then you're adding more depletion on top of that as you go. And I see this a lot, in my practice as well. And it's, things that often as well, I always say, get brushed off as hashtag mum life.

A lot of them actually do come down to your body being depleted. For example, brain fog. That's a really big one, and I get it. it's inevitable that we experience a little bit of [00:22:00] this, but a lot of. Brain fog is actually related back to cognitive function, which requires a lot of Omega-3, which is what moms become extremely deficient in during pregnancy.

So simply adding in, Omega-3 fatty rich foods during this time as well makes such a big difference to how you experience that postpartum phase. it is so important and it doesn't have to be complicated, like you said, focusing on those beautiful, hot, slow cooked meals, and I love that you also said, asking guests to bring over those types of meals, which is just amazing.

That is such a great tip. Instead of presents, I would so much more prefer a nice home, homemade cook, hot cooked meal. so yeah, I'm really glad you touched on that. We are seeing, more mothers than ever before experiencing burnout. Why do you think that is? And what are some practical ways we can try and avoid this early on in that postpartum phase?

I know you touched on this a little bit, so I guess it's [00:23:00] just the pressures of modern society really. Like the expectations that are put on moms, at this time is just insane. a lot of women are having to go back to work because of the cost of life right now. So they're, they're the mom of young children and working.

Bounce back culture where it's just okay, you've had your baby and you're expected to get on with life, like you haven't. so and. I guess most of us live in nuclear families as well, and that's against how we are designed. We're meant to live, multi-generationally in small communities where there's a term called aloe parenting, which is where there's multiple care providers.

That all look after the children and all look after each other collectively. And we don't, we don't have that. Like my husband is from New Zealand, so half of our family is across the sea. that's a huge part of it as well. a lot of us are living away from our extended families, so I believe all of that contributes to.

To [00:24:00] burnout for mothers like this huge expectation that we have to do it all and be it all without a village. so that hopefully answers that first question. And then there's so many things that families and moms can do to prepare so that they are experiencing and nourish postpartum. And this is a lot of what, of the work that I do in the prenatal space with pregnant mamas and their partners.

one thing they can do, which is really cool is have what's called a nesting party. So rather than having, a baby shower where people come and bring presents for the baby, they can invite their nearest and dearest over and have a massive cook up. They can all feel the freezer, so they can do slow cooks.

one handed snacks are really good, like little mini muffins or bliss balls and things. And that's a really beautiful, women centered way that the pregnant mama can connect with her best friends and her, whether she has a good relationship with her mom or her mother-in-law, but just women coming together to [00:25:00] cook, to fill the freezer.

So that's one way that she can prepare. there's lots of meal delivery services out there that, can, you can ask for gift vouchers for those, or you can, purchase your own meal packages, so that once you're in your postpartum, there's meals being delivered to your door from one of these services.

And there's quite a few. I've got a really good Instagram post, on my page that lists a few of the different ones, but there's quite a few in Sydney. what else can she do? a meal train. have you heard of a meal train before?I love setting these up for my moms and it can, meal trains can be set up at any time.

So if someone's having surgery or there's been a loss in the family or anything's going on, there's this really cool app. It's free. It's just called meal train.com. And it's like a bridal registry, but it's done with meals. So the mom can put in all of her dietary requirements, the expected due date of her baby, and she can [00:26:00] send it to her family and friends, whoever she wants to.

And then those people who would like to join the meal train, they select a date in the calendar, and then they say what kind of meal they're gonna deliver. And then on that day they just drop the meal over. and then that's, yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. It's really cool. So I set those up for all of the mamas that I support.

Oh, that's awesome. We'll make sure we share that in the show notes as well. 'cause I think that is such a great service. there's just so many amazing services out there that a lot of women are just not aware of. So I'm glad you spoke about that because I would've had no idea that existed.

So That's amazing. Yep. Yeah. so yeah, a nesting party. Meal delivery service, a meal train, batch cooking is something else that can be done. So this doesn't require anyone else or outsourcing. leading up, if you've got much energy, when you're in your third trimester, if you're making dinner, just double the portion [00:27:00] size and have.

dinner for that night and then put the rest into the freezer so that's ready to go. And if you do that a couple times a week in your third trimester, and it can be anything, get the, if you get the Pyrex or I use jars in my freezer. A lot of people like you can put jars in freezers, you can.

so just having those meals ready to go in the freezer. Is another way. hiring a postpartum doula is another way as well because we always bring meals with us too. So yeah, there's quite a lot of different ways that. A mom and her family can have the meals ready to go so that when she's in postpartum she's not cooking.

'cause ideally, the mom should definitely not be in the kitchen preparing food, but so that the fridge and the freezer are full so that when she is hungry and she's probably going to be ravenous, after birthing her baby, that there's food on hand. you're not ordering Uber Eats. you've got nourishing good food ready to go.

Yeah. [00:28:00] Oh, I love that. Thanks for sharing all those tips. They're so great. I know you touched on this as well a little bit, and I've spoken about this as well, but in western countries we often praise the mother who can do it all. keep a tidy home, have a career, cook healthy meals every night, be it every school activity.

Why is this expectation and message so damaging, and why is it important that we. Actually are asking for help and creating this village around us. we need to pave the way for more of that type of support and change the way western countries view mothers. Because it really is, we're seeing so many more moms than ever before experiencing burnout.

And I know you said this as well, it is because we just don't have this village around us. so how. find connection, find her village. Why is it so important during this time for her? I guess as you, like you highlighted with your own personal [00:29:00] story, there is the very real health consequences that can come up.

and it might not be in the short term, like a mom might feel like she's okay or she's still within that fog of, having a newborn baby or in the first year even. Postnatal depletion can still be showing up 10 years later after mamas have had their babies if they haven't replenished and chronic illnesses can creep up.

so yeah, your long-term health depends upon I. You being replenished and being nourished. your future self will. Thank your new mama self. for nourishing and being nourished. I feel like our society has normalised so many things, like even incontinence, like the rates of incontinence and prolapse and uterine hysterectomies and things like that happen, once you get to menopause and.

It's just become normal, like Pantyliners, it's just that's just, the result of being a mom and the sacrifice that women make to have children. None of [00:30:00] those things are normal. They've just become normalised within our society. So having awareness and knowledge that. Sacrificing yourself and trying to do it all and be it all and not prioritising your own needs in your early postpartum will show up later in life in the form of chronic health issues.

so just having that awareness, knowing that when you're pregnant, Is probably a good way to be like, okay, I need to do this stuff now so that I can be healthy. I personally, I wanna be grandmother that can run around after my grandkids. that's what I want for my life.

I don't wanna be falling apart. So I know that the work that I'm doing now and valuing, nourishing myself and helping to nourish other mamas will, will show up later. so I guess getting that message across is really important. And just knowing that, as I said before, just the fact [00:31:00] that we live in nuclear families and running a household, raising children.

Earning money. Like the fact that falls on two people, the mom and the dad, and often there's a lot of single parents out there as well. it's just wild. it's next to impossible. So being very kind to yourself, knowing that you are absolutely doing the best job that you possibly can in, a culture that makes it super challenging and, Yeah, I guess you also talked about what you need to find your mama tribe. Everyone's going through the same stuff, right? yeah, you're not alone as well. And I know Instagram and social media can be very deceptive, but people are only sharing the parts of their life often that they want to share.

It's not always reality. So finding. Like-minded mamas that are sharing a similar season of life to you so that you can have the really real [00:32:00] conversations and that you feel like you're not alone and being supported during that time is, it's a game changer really. I, there was a couple of mamas. One I'm still really good friends with now.

That I connected with at prenatal yoga during my first pregnancy, and I don't know how I would've got through that first year without their connections. It was, yeah, really crucial. yeah, to survive, I. I remember that same experience, not wanting to go to my mother's group. I missed the first session, and then my husband really pushed me to go to the second one, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made because that connection with those mothers really changed everything for me.

I could really. See myself going downhill, within that first month or two, and that connection was just paved the way for a more positive experience. For me. It's just those little conversations where it's it's not just me, it's not, there every, these people are going through it with me.

We are all in it [00:33:00] together. We're all trying to get through. It's not just my baby that doesn't sleep. Those kind of conversations. Are actually life changing and those kind of connections are life changing and they can really change your whole experience of motherhood, especially in that first postpartum phase, especially as a first time mom as well.

It really does change that and connection is it. It is so important and a little bit of a tangent here, but connection itself has been named one of the top five health pillars. So you know, from a physical and a mental perspective. So it's really important to see how that important that is. And I know you touched on this as well about the nuclear families because in Western countries we don't just.

Praise the mom that can do it all. We also don't have this culture where we are in it together. We don't ha naturally have this village around us. and even though we are in the 21st century, we still see a lot of cultures around the [00:34:00] world, especially in Asian countries and places like that, where the mother has this, it's this whole beautiful ceremony that happens post birth and which goes on for weeks and months in some cases, and.

we've got, all these other women, coming together and making specific types of meals or different types of traditions that, probably more about, that is still happening around other places in the world, but in western countries we just don't have that. We've lost that ability to create these ceremonies and cultures for mums.

And sometimes it's important to just, find that on your own. No, absolutely. It's, it's up to the individual mama and family to create her own version of that village. because yeah, it's just been forgotten in our western culture, and replaced with this notion of struggling through, and it's been, and it's to no fault of any individual, they didn't experience it themselves. so I guess, [00:35:00] yeah, I was a bit shocked that my mom didn't really know, after I had my first daughter and I was very desperate for something. I needed something, but I didn't really know what it was, and that my mom didn't know what that was either.

That was really challenging, but. when I did my studies and have in the years since, reflected upon it more no one was there for my mom, so she struggled through her postpartums, so that's where it's been normalised where it's just oh, this is my mom's experience.

So that's what's normal. That's what happens. But then when you stand up and try and do something different, a lot of people look at you and especially when people say, oh, I wanna get a postpartum doula, or even a birth doula, they're just like, oh, that's a bit hippie. Or, what do you need to do that for?

And Even my husband, when we organised the the meal delivery service for our second postpartum, even for him it was very challenging to ask for help. 'cause he's just [00:36:00] I can cook. that's fine. I'm gonna be here. I've got six weeks off work. I can make meals for you. We don't need to spend money on that.

But it was seriously life changing, like just having those meals because it takes the mental loads. Away as well, which is something that often isn't spoken about so much where it's just like with a newborn baby, you have to make so many decisions that you've never made before in your life and you're feeling unconfident.

And then someone says to you, what do you wanna eat for dinner? You just I don't care. Just feed me. just give me something that I don't have to think about. but yeah, I guess going back to. So what you were saying about the connection with other mamas, like seriously, they're the ones that are in the, this is a terrible term, but they're in the trenches with you, and finding those, finding that connection. And it validates that you're not alone and that you are, you know that what you are experiencing, someone else is also experiencing. And [00:37:00] just by knowing that you don't feel alone anymore. and that's something I run a pregnancy circle.

Yeah, I host a pregnancy circle and then I host a mother's gathering. And in those events I see it happen all the time where one, one pregnant mom is sharing something and it's exactly the same as what another mom is experiencing and then the same in postpartum. And it's just, it's so powerful when women come together.

And I love that you said that. Did you say it's like the fifth part of like health and wellbeing connection? it's one of the five pillars of, thriving health and wellbeing. connection is one of those five pillars, amongst nutrition and sleep, but it is huge to be up there and they're finding that connection has played a huge role in longevity.

As well. So it's to see and think about how important it is because it really is, important not just for your mental health, but also for your physical health as well. and this time during postpartum [00:38:00] is when it can be the loneliest. and that's when things can spiral mentally for a lot of women.

Finding that connection can really change that for a lot of people. And that's why I love that you host these mother's circles because I know you noticed how important that connection is and, being able to find these types of things. if you are. Anywhere around Rhiannon and I, you can reach out and see where she's hosting those circles.

But, I'm sure people can also try and do some research if they're anywhere around the world and see if they can find places like that. I know in Australia it's very common to, to have mothers groups and things like that. and you'd ideally be able to find that anywhere around the world, hopefully.

You just, you like, you need to do it though. You need to be proactive in that. It's not, I say often it's just like once your baby's born, the village doesn't magically appear. Like it's up to us to, to, we have to create our own villages. and I just like to add to that as well, [00:39:00] that a really heartbreaking part of postpartum, I guess can be when the people that you thought were gonna show up for you.

Don't, and it can be for so many different reasons. and I guess, yeah, that's another layer that comes with scent. that sometimes people that you are really good friends with. That you feel you'll be friends with them forever. Once you become a mom, so many things shift and sometimes those friendships fall away.

And likewise, the dynamic potentially with your sisters, with your aunties, with your mother, all of those things can shift. Through becoming a mother because how you view the world changes so much. so I'd just like to acknowledge that as well. that yeah, that can be really, it can also be the opposite and it can be incredible when people that you didn't think were gonna be there, they really step up And, like I remember the first people who brought me the first meal in my postpartum.

It was a. [00:40:00] It was a lentil soup and a garlic bread. And, I was just like, this is the most incredible thing I think I have ever received, ever. Yeah, I just wanted to add that, that's a part of it as well, and I experienced that myself, so I'm so glad you touched on that because it is it, you really, your whole world shifts including the friendships and the connections that you had previously, which is why again, it's so important.

That you find that other village because that other village of mothers and people that are going through the same thing as you is really gonna shape the experience you have. and that's where you find, like for me, that's where I found lifelong friends now. because it really is about being in a room with people that are where you are at.

and it doesn't mean that, you've got a. Ditch everyone before that. but for your own mental sanity, your own mental clarity for connection, for all of that, it's really important that you do find people that are going through the, a [00:41:00] similar experience as you because it can really shift and change your whole experience.

So I do love that you touched on that. Now, before I let you go, Rhiannon, I would actually really love to know yourself. What are some of your non-negotiable daily health habits? As a busy mama I. Okay. from the very beginning when I had my first daughter, it was always food I needed to eat. so I rarely ever skip a meal, especially breakfast.

Like I, I'm one of those people that get super hangry and almost Like shaky, like I can tell if I haven't eaten physically. so definitely a non-negotiable for me is breakfast. I always eat breakfast in the morning, and a hot drink as well. So that is definitely something. I don't drink coffee, so I'm not, I don't need my coffee, but, Yeah, whether it be a cup of tea or lately I've been having, a broth in the morning, [00:42:00] which I'm loving right now. so definitely food and a hot drink and, for me it's a shower every single day is a non-negotiable for me. when my babies were little, when my husband would get home, that would always be one of the first things I'm like, it's time for me to have a shower.

Yeah. yeah, definitely, eating and like I said before, the amount of moms when I see them and I'm like, when was the last time you ate something? They're like, oh, last night. I'm like, no. let me get you some food. it's just, it's wild. so yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. And tell us a little bit more about your services and where everyone can find you.

Yeah, thank you. so on Instagram is probably the easiest way. So my handle is Rhiannon and James doula and, you can head over to my website, which is just rhiannon james.com au. so I am located on the central coast, [00:43:00] which is not that too far from Sydney. but I do also have some online offerings as well.

So whilst I can't physically come to your home in the postpartum and nourish you in person, I do work remotely with couples to plan and prepare for their postpartum. I. I've got a couple down in Tasmania at the moment that I'm supporting, and I've supported a couple in the UK before as well. So if you, if you're wanting to do some planning and preparation, then we can do lots of things, via Zoom.

I do also teach what's called the beautiful breastfeeding program. I guess we haven't spoken so much about breastfeeding today. but for me, breastfeeding and postpartum, they go hand in hand. and it's something that I'm super passionate about as well. similar to postpartum where I feel our culture and society is forgotten how to support mamas.

We've also been forgotten how to be supported in breastfeeding, I teach the beautiful breastfeeding program, which is through the Thompson Method, [00:44:00] and that's all done via Zoom. So anyone who wants to, go into their breastfeeding journey feeling, empowered and informed, and then supported the whole way through, that's something that I offer.

I. and I do also have a beautiful virtual community that's called the Connected Mamas community that anybody can join from anywhere. and you get my support through that and a whole bunch of other good stuff. and if you are on the Central Coast, or I do, I have had clients in Sydney and I've got a client up in Maitland.

So I do travel, on occasion. I do, I can come to your home and nourish you in your postpartum, in person. Oh my gosh, I would've loved that. That is amazing. Yes. We will make sure that we share all those links, in the show notes where you can find rhi and Rhiannon. Thank you so much for this beautiful chat.

I know this will help so many mamas out there. it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. thank you so much, Ana. I feel like I've learned from you as well. And, yeah, we are in this together, mamas, right? Like we're all here to help and support each [00:45:00] other. and I feel that there's a shift slowly, one mama at a time.

We are gonna change the culture for our, for ourselves and our kiddos. thank you all so much for being here and thanks Ana for having me. It's been a pleasure. Definitely. Thanks Rhiannon.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope this conversation has inspired you to live your healthiest, happiest life. Don't forget to subscribe and tune in next week. Bye for now.